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Post by brp on Apr 10, 2023 12:46:47 GMT -5
THIS is spot on. It will be interesting to see where all of this ends with these companies that do these bizarre political moves all in the name of virtue signaling. I can't wrap my head around the illogical aspects of it all. I guess that's one way to describe a company's decision to connect with an underserved/under-recognized market. "Virtue signaling" unfortunatley seems to have become a quasi-pejorative, overused and/or misused, a la "woke." Yup. Anyone who stand up for their employees, especially those in marginalized and unrepresented groups is "wokr" and "virtue signaling." The labels are jsut a way to continue to abuse these groups and the criticize anyone who disagrees. A Wall Street Journalist writer was jailed in Russia for disagreeing with Putin, Just sayin'.
Cheers.
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Post by cpnkirk on Apr 10, 2023 13:27:09 GMT -5
Smartest analysis of this issue can be found from Len Testa on this week's Disney Dish podcast. After hearing this, it's even worse for DeSantis than I thought. Len, who did attend the last Reedy Creek board meeting unlike anyone from the governor's office, said he could forgive someone being outsmarted, he can't forgive someone being outworked. IMHO, it's pretty obvious that there was no due diligence done by the DeSantis team. It's all about performative politics, not about governing. Len made it sound that way for sure. However, his legal advice is worth what you pay for it - when lawyers get involved, some amazing interpretations can happen. I won't count anything until I see it happen. With that said, it does seem that Disney was careful to follow the law and set things up the way they want it. And, the bit that Len read direct from FL law (even giving the law # or whatever) basically says that when the governing institutions are about to change, the original institution should work w/ corps to get what everyone needs before the change (paraphrased). First time I had heard that!
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Post by henrycpa on Apr 10, 2023 14:21:36 GMT -5
The problem is who gets to define wrong. When your customer base is split on the defintion of wrong, keep your mouth (or your marketing department) quiet. Iger has one job, to return shareholder value. he is failing miserably as did his predecessor...
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Post by rigby on Apr 10, 2023 14:49:27 GMT -5
I don’t know, man. It just seems rather heartless to say Iger’s only job is to return shareholder value. What about all of the people who work for the guy? We’re just different how we see the world. To each is own, pal. We’ll see where it goes…
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Post by brp on Apr 10, 2023 14:55:39 GMT -5
I don’t know, man. It just seems rather heartless to say Iger’s only job is to return shareholder value. What about all of the people who work for the guy? We’re just different how we see the world. To each is own, pal. We’ll see where it goes… Agreed. Influential companies have an obligation to support justice and fairness, IMO. In thus case, the "right" and "wrong" of fairness and inclusion are pretty obvious. So, Disney can just hide behind "we're just here to make money" or they can take a stand to support their employees and larger values. Chapek did it very poorly, but he finally did it. Iger is representing the cause much better.
I'd be quite embarrassed if Iger and Disney stood aside and did nothing in the face of this farce. Clearly, they agree.
Anyway, as rigby said- we'll see how it goes,. The Mouse versus Bozo. I know where my money is on this one
Cheers.
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Post by ratfan on Apr 10, 2023 18:35:13 GMT -5
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Post by henrycpa on Apr 10, 2023 18:50:46 GMT -5
I don’t know, man. It just seems rather heartless to say Iger’s only job is to return shareholder value. What about all of the people who work for the guy? We’re just different how we see the world. To each is own, pal. We’ll see where it goes… Agreed. Influential companies have an obligation to support justice and fairness, IMO. In thus case, the "right" and "wrong" of fairness and inclusion are pretty obvious. So, Disney can just hide behind "we're just here to make money" or they can take a stand to support their employees and larger values. Chapek did it very poorly, but he finally did it. Iger is representing the cause much better.
I'd be quite embarrassed if Iger and Disney stood aside and did nothing in the face of this farce. Clearly, they agree.
Anyway, as rigby said- we'll see how it goes,. The Mouse versus Bozo. I know where my money is on this one
Cheers.
Actually, unless they list themselves as a B Corp nope, they are to build shareholder wealth. Do do anything else puts them out of compliance. Rigby, a happy workforce is part of returning shareholder wealth. They cannot generate that return without good employees. The problem with taking a political stance is a workforce almost always mimics the views of the general public, which in the case last year that caused Reedy Creek means they chose a segment of their workforce over another segment. Good leaders and BOD's should never do that. Disney's did. And now that issue is ongoing.
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Post by zafiro on Apr 10, 2023 19:02:58 GMT -5
The problem is who gets to define wrong. When your customer base is split on the defintion of wrong, keep your mouth (or your marketing department) quiet. Iger has one job, to return shareholder value. he is failing miserably as did his predecessor... Again, I think you're spot on. Iger is getting stuck in the weeds.
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Post by helenabear on Apr 10, 2023 19:11:49 GMT -5
I think no one here is going to change very obvious political biases - though I appreciate how kind people are being as I really hope we can remain polite since quite a few are discussing politics and not the issues at hand.
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Post by SuzanneSLO on Apr 10, 2023 19:34:34 GMT -5
Agreed. Influential companies have an obligation to support justice and fairness, IMO. In thus case, the "right" and "wrong" of fairness and inclusion are pretty obvious. So, Disney can just hide behind "we're just here to make money" or they can take a stand to support their employees and larger values. Chapek did it very poorly, but he finally did it. Iger is representing the cause much better.
I'd be quite embarrassed if Iger and Disney stood aside and did nothing in the face of this farce. Clearly, they agree.
Anyway, as rigby said- we'll see how it goes,. The Mouse versus Bozo. I know where my money is on this one
Cheers.
Actually, unless they list themselves as a B Corp nope, they are to build shareholder wealth. Do do anything else puts them out of compliance. Rigby, a happy workforce is part of returning shareholder wealth. They cannot generate that return without good employees. The problem with taking a political stance is a workforce almost always mimics the views of the general public, which in the case last year that caused Reedy Creek means they chose a segment of their workforce over another segment. Good leaders and BOD's should never do that. Disney's did. And now that issue is ongoing. As you note, finding and retaining quality employees can be key to providing shareholder value. Disney has been through this before when it decided that providing health benefits to significant others of its LGBTQ employees was more important than any possible backlash. It weathered an 8 year boycott from that decision. Of course, in that case, the state of Florida didn’t retaliate against the Company based on its employee benefit policy. But this may be the new reality. No contract is safe if someone somewhere doesn’t like who you are or what you stand for or the product you make. I can’t think of many things that would be worse for shareholder value not just for Disney but for every company.
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Post by broganmc on Apr 10, 2023 20:08:20 GMT -5
Agreed. Influential companies have an obligation to support justice and fairness, IMO. In thus case, the "right" and "wrong" of fairness and inclusion are pretty obvious. So, Disney can just hide behind "we're just here to make money" or they can take a stand to support their employees and larger values. Chapek did it very poorly, but he finally did it. Iger is representing the cause much better.
I'd be quite embarrassed if Iger and Disney stood aside and did nothing in the face of this farce. Clearly, they agree.
Anyway, as rigby said- we'll see how it goes,. The Mouse versus Bozo. I know where my money is on this one
Cheers.
Actually, unless they list themselves as a B Corp nope, they are to build shareholder wealth. Do do anything else puts them out of compliance. Rigby, a happy workforce is part of returning shareholder wealth. They cannot generate that return without good employees. The problem with taking a political stance is a workforce almost always mimics the views of the general public, which in the case last year that caused Reedy Creek means they chose a segment of their workforce over another segment. Good leaders and BOD's should never do that. Disney's did. And now that issue is ongoing. This is the part of the analysis that I think a lot of people miss. Last year there was a distinct difference in how people viewed Florida's law. Some agreed and some disagreed. It was a pretty even split. And that included the cast members. The most vocal cast members coming out against it were in California. Frankly I find their opinion irrelevant because they're not in Florida. They were not affected by that law. However I did take note at the time Chapek was moving The imagineering department from California to Florida. And that caused a lot of discord in the California workbase. Now imagine you were one of those employees who not only was faced with having to move across the country or lose your job and then this subject comes up. You're going to be very loud. It's going to make you want to fight Florida even more. And I think that's what happened. Chapek tried to divert criticism of him for all these decisions by appeasing this very vocal unhappy workforce as of it was the entire workforce. It wasn't. The walkouts were in California not Florida. That tells me he completely ignored the other workforce that was not unhappy. And that's the mistake made. When a company comes out in a stance that ostracizes one half of their work base in favor of the other, they're going to have issues. Then you look at what their core customer base is and you can have another problem on your hands. I appreciate the position of the advocates. I know from their point of view this was an absolute injustice. I had a different interpretation of the situation. As a customer, a DVC owner and a shareholder, I didn't want Disney corporation to take a stand either way. I wanted them to be welcoming to both sides of the argument. I wanted them to respect the people of Florida to make their own decisions. I did not want them to turn into a political action committee. I remind you the Florida law was very popular in Florida. This came off as California telling Florida what to do. That's never going to end well. And that's when I looked at the fairness of one theme park company having a special district when their direct competitors in town never had that advantage. Why should Disney have such autonomy when Universal and SeaWorld do not? Does it really hurt them to not have this autonomy? They're competitors seem to thrive. Now as for what the Reedy Creek board did, I'll leave that up to the lawyers. I think it was a last minute bait and switch. On the same token I don't think putting in toll roads is anything more than a threat. It wouldn't hurt the company. It would hurt the customers. And it does look very petty and retalitorial. That's why I think it's just an empty threat. At the end of the day Florida politicians want the income that tourists bring. A few points on a political opinion poll is going to mean very little if their actions drop that revenue. Right now I see this as a game of chicken between two heavy weight fighters. Both are trying to say they have the most influence over the public. But they run the risk of being so caught up in that fight they ostracized the public.
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Post by SuzanneSLO on Apr 10, 2023 21:28:05 GMT -5
You can’t just take a popularity poll to determine when it’s okay to mistreat a minority. Again, Disney has a long history of protecting rights in the LBGTQ community. No one should be surprised that it took the position it did.
As to whether the Reedy Creek District was appropriate when formed in the 1960’s, it certainly was important to Walt Disney and was at least one of the factors that caused him to build his next park in Florida instead of another state. Maybe other entities that benefit from those Improvement Districts, such as The Villages and Daytona Speedway, should be careful what they say. The current law only impacts Improvement Districts formed before 1968, but hey, laws can be changed.
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Post by skywatcher1206 on Apr 11, 2023 6:28:17 GMT -5
Actually, unless they list themselves as a B Corp nope, they are to build shareholder wealth. Do do anything else puts them out of compliance. Rigby, a happy workforce is part of returning shareholder wealth. They cannot generate that return without good employees. The problem with taking a political stance is a workforce almost always mimics the views of the general public, which in the case last year that caused Reedy Creek means they chose a segment of their workforce over another segment. Good leaders and BOD's should never do that. Disney's did. And now that issue is ongoing. And that's when I looked at the fairness of one theme park company having a special district when their direct competitors in town never had that advantage. Why should Disney have such autonomy when Universal and SeaWorld do not? Does it really hurt them to not have this autonomy? They're competitors seem to thrive. Now as for what the Reedy Creek board did, I'll leave that up to the lawyers. I think it was a last minute bait and switch. On the same token I don't think putting in toll roads is anything more than a threat. It wouldn't hurt the company. It would hurt the customers. And it does look very petty and retalitorial. That's why I think it's just an empty threat. At the end of the day Florida politicians want the income that tourists bring. A few points on a political opinion poll is going to mean very little if their actions drop that revenue. Right now I see this as a game of chicken between two heavy weight fighters. Both are trying to say they have the most influence over the public. But they run the risk of being so caught up in that fight they ostracized the public. Whether or not you agree with the political position Disney took is irrelevant. The issue is the obvious retaliation due to that position. As far as the fairness of the Reedy Creek district, none of the other theme parks would be there if Disney had not done the work to make central Florida a place that so many tourists wanted to go. Even that is irrelevant though. If the Florida legislature had looked into this issue of “is it fair if Disney has Reedy Creek but other companies do not have something similar” years ago and the legislature and Disney worked together to come up with a mutually satisfactory solution, I do not think that there would be an issue at all. The issue is that the FL governor decided that it would make himself look tough on Woke, if he took over Reedy Creek, not because he cared about the “fairness” of it at all but because he and the board that he put in of his political friends, thought that they could have some power over Disney content through threats of messing with their infrastructure. They basically said as much. That is the real issue…
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Post by john2247 on Apr 11, 2023 8:10:47 GMT -5
I think no one here is going to change very obvious political biases - though I appreciate how kind people are being as I really hope we can remain polite since quite a few are discussing politics and not the issues at hand. Thank you!
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Post by brp on Apr 11, 2023 8:22:06 GMT -5
You can’t just take a popularity poll to determine when it’s okay to mistreat a minority. Again, Disney has a long history of protecting rights in the LBGTQ community. No one should be surprised that it took the position it did. It’s amazing how often this part gets overlooked. Not just here, but in wider society. Marginalization of minority groups should not be a popularity contest. And punishing an entity for realizing and acting on that is ludicrous. As some have alluded, there is likely even a portion of the Disney employee base that are ok with the mistreatment of this group. As if some employees being ok with this creates some sort of mandate for the company to stay silent and tolerate the mistreatment. Cheers.
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