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Post by helenabear on Apr 26, 2023 9:59:41 GMT -5
The transient taxes at VDH is a big concern for many. The differences between VGC and VDH will be rather large for those booking there. I do wonder how that will affect sales given the high price to sell. I think real issues related to that, as well as this, can be discussed when they arise. I agree. You pay for DVC to have a prepaid vacation. Then you get a significant local tax on top of the high price of DVC and the pretty high point requriement from what I can see. I struggle to understand the difference in cost of this tax between the two California properties but I am certain there is something I do not know in the negotiations Disney had to do to get permission to build this new one. I am not one who read through it all but my understanding is that VGC rolls the tax into MFs where VDH does not. But it feels like the MFs are much higher for VDH which is surprising given the nature of towers and such. But given I don't go to CA often due to issues with flying distances, it's not something I've dug into. Aulani has a transient tax too but it is far more reasonable in cost IMO. |
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Post by njgoofy on Apr 26, 2023 10:49:44 GMT -5
Hopefully I can forget this thread before I head to WDW in Sept!!!
Peace
Ted
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Post by brp on Apr 26, 2023 10:54:44 GMT -5
DVC is something we have in common. And it should bring us together. The fact we are having political division on a site dedicated to a public company tells us all we need to know about our society right now. And that is something I never thought I would see in our country. But, as posted by another, I do worry about transient taxes and other issues effecting the pricing of DVC stays. I actually see this differently, and in a good way for this board and group.
There have always been people of different political and philosophical views in the country at large, and here on this board. That is not new. We saw it on the previous board as well. I'm 62 years old and it has existed all my life. Can't speak to before that 
In the country, I think we'll all agree that divisiveness is increasing (and we can all have our view as to why), but I have a feeling we'll all agree on this.
In this thread, though, with diverse opinions and (sometimes strong) disagreement, I think we have been very civil, reflective of what I have seen in the country in the past and would hope for in the future. Differing opinions, disagreement to be sure, but respect for divergent opinions.
DVC does bring us together, but will never eliminate our philosophical differences. That we can be civil in discussing them here is a credit to the members of this board, the organizers and admins here and the culture started with the previous board.
Overall, I see this thread in a positive light for this board and would gladly share a drink with anyone here, including those with whom I disagree.
Cheers.
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Post by maxsdad on Apr 26, 2023 11:29:44 GMT -5
Walt Disney World is suing Ron DeSantis and board members of the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District. The lawsuit is filed in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida. For those interested, here is a link to the filing: www.documentcloud.org/documents/23789600-file-stamped-disney-complaint1This is my favorite portion: 18. Disney finds itself in this regrettable position because it expressed a viewpoint the Governor and his allies did not like. Disney wishes that things could have been resolved a different way. But Disney also knows that it is fortunate to have the resources to take a stand against the State’s retaliation—a stand smaller businesses and individuals might not be able to take when the State comes after them for expressing their own views. In America, the government cannot punish you for speaking your mind. First Amendment for the win! |
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Post by rigby on Apr 26, 2023 12:00:04 GMT -5
About time! I’m still just so baffled that anyone on this site thinks what the Governor is doing is ok. I live in Denver where our Governor just signed a bunch of legislation protecting abortion rights. The sandwich company Quiznos is based out of Colorado. If hypothetically Quiznos was to come out with a statement saying that they disagree with the Governor and they will no longer contribute to his campaign and they will work to have the laws changed would it be cool for the government to come after them? Threaten to raise their taxes. Rip up the streets in front of their stores for road construction. Send in inspectors every week looking for any reason to close their shops. Would that be ok?  |
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Post by SuzanneSLO on Apr 26, 2023 12:09:44 GMT -5
Walt Disney World is suing Ron DeSantis and board members of the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District. The lawsuit is filed in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida. For those interested, here is a link to the filing: www.documentcloud.org/documents/23789600-file-stamped-disney-complaint1This is my favorite portion: 18. Disney finds itself in this regrettable position because it expressed a viewpoint the Governor and his allies did not like. Disney wishes that things could have been resolved a different way. But Disney also knows that it is fortunate to have the resources to take a stand against the State’s retaliation—a stand smaller businesses and individuals might not be able to take when the State comes after them for expressing their own views. In America, the government cannot punish you for speaking your mind. First Amendment for the win! Thanks for posting the link. I saw that one of the attorneys representing Disney previously defended Donald Trump in the Trump University lawsuit filed in 2016. |
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Post by johnb on Apr 26, 2023 12:20:10 GMT -5
Walt Disney World is suing Ron DeSantis and board members of the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District. The lawsuit is filed in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida. For those interested, here is a link to the filing: www.documentcloud.org/documents/23789600-file-stamped-disney-complaint1This is my favorite portion: 18. Disney finds itself in this regrettable position because it expressed a viewpoint the Governor and his allies did not like. Disney wishes that things could have been resolved a different way. But Disney also knows that it is fortunate to have the resources to take a stand against the State’s retaliation—a stand smaller businesses and individuals might not be able to take when the State comes after them for expressing their own views. In America, the government cannot punish you for speaking your mind. First Amendment for the win! Thanks for posting the link. I saw that one of the attorneys representing Disney previously defended Donald Trump in the Trump University lawsuit filed in 2016. Petrocelli? He also represented the Goldman family in their civil suit vs. OJ. |
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Post by johnb on Apr 26, 2023 12:22:31 GMT -5
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Post by brp on Apr 26, 2023 12:24:32 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the link. I saw that one of the attorneys representing Disney previously defended Donald Trump in the Trump University lawsuit filed in 2016. Petrocelli? He also represented the Goldman family in their civil suit vs. OJ. Lawyers are often apolitical in who they will represent. Don Lemon (CNN) and Tucker Carlson (FOX) were fired on the same day. About as far apart as one gets politically in the "mainstream." They have both retained the same lawyer (Bryan Freedman).
Cheers.
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Post by SuzanneSLO on Apr 26, 2023 13:25:38 GMT -5
Even though the length is intimidating, the suit is actually a pretty easy read if you want to understand Disney’s version of events. Disney is asking for an injunction to overturn the action by CFTOD to void the Development Agreement and the Restrictive Covenants and to prevent the enforcement of the laws adopted by the State to first dissolve, then modify the governance of the Special District. CFTOD Board lists their basis for invalidating the Development Agreement and Restrictive Covenants in the Board Packet from 4/26, which I have linked for those interested: www.rcid.org/meetings/rcid-board-of-supervisors-meeting-2/. It is a bit of a slog to read. |
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Post by oldhalfelf on Apr 26, 2023 13:43:37 GMT -5
If one is checking out the baseball trading cards of the attorneys involved, one should also take a look at the lawyer listed top left on the complaint -- a former SCOTUS clerk with appellate experience in the 11th Circuit (among others): www.wilmerhale.com/en/people/alan-schoenfeld . My experience with WilmerHale has been limited to other attorneys and regarded intellectual property rather than constitutional matters, but the services it rendered were excellent. Where is the popcorn smiley when you want it?  |
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Post by helenabear on Apr 26, 2023 14:05:14 GMT -5
Where is the popcorn smiley when you want it?  |
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Post by Eeyorelover22 on Apr 26, 2023 14:13:18 GMT -5
Skip to the end But, yes, not difficult to read. Most of us here already know most of the rest. |
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Post by Ludwig Von Chuck on Apr 26, 2023 14:48:11 GMT -5
Vis-a-vis the immediate "concrete consequences" acceptable as a discussion topic, I offer the following, which I consider orthogonal to the nettlesome debating points above. (Is this post a squirrel?) Those of us who depend in whole or part upon the stock market for our retirements, and who study the "markets" tab of the WSJ (or Barrons, or similar sources) will be used to articles claiming that traders variously have or have not "already priced in" the probabilities of specified future events. Such events include the Fed raising, holding, or lowering rates, or the EPA announcing new air quality measures, or changes in employment or inflation figures. For those unfamiliar with "pricing in", here are two recent example articles: www.barrons.com/articles/stock-bond-market-fed-rate-warnings-d0ef2f6e (which also provides a great photo of the Marx brothers, for squirrel purposes) and www.barrons.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-040623/card/stock-futures-wobble-ahead-of-u-s-jobs-report-yU7VWN6N1dglxVNH2hVU?mod=md__news . The latter includes the (putatively three significant figure) statement, "Markets are currently pricing in a 48.3% chance that the central bank holds rates as-is, according to the CME FedWatch Tool." So, my questions regarding immediate concrete consequences are whether (a) DVC and/or (b) DVC point renters and buyers are already "pricing in" probability estimates of a recently proposed, Aulani-like WDW "transient visitor" or hotel tax within the DVC and resale price points and sales projections and ROFR decisions. As a Disney shareholder, I hope and believe the answer to "a" surely should be "yes", as a matter of good business economics analysis. The "b" question seems harder, given the inflationary and other factors affecting resale buyers, sellers, and brokers. Another MagicOwners thread mentions the low prices and high inventory in the resale market currently, as well as broker reluctance to submit low offers to sellers. It might be a good PhD dissertation topic to try and de-convolute the market's future probability estimates of a transient visitor tax from the effects of unrelated inflation, etc. In particular, I wonder if independent DVC point price behavior in CA and HI could give clues. I do not recall seeing detailed state- versus-state price behavior analyses in MouseOwners or MagicOwners, correcting for resort ages and other non-state specific factors (treehouses, etc.)  To quote my Finance and Accounting professors: the answer to your question is "it depends."  |
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Post by Wiltony on Apr 26, 2023 17:34:38 GMT -5
DVC is something we have in common. And it should bring us together. The fact we are having political division on a site dedicated to a public company tells us all we need to know about our society right now. And that is something I never thought I would see in our country. But, as posted by another, I do worry about transient taxes and other issues effecting the pricing of DVC stays. I actually see this differently, and in a good way for this board and group.
There have always been people of different political and philosophical views in the country at large, and here on this board. That is not new. We saw it on the previous board as well. I'm 62 years old and it has existed all my life. Can't speak to before that
In the country, I think we'll all agree that divisiveness is increasing (and we can all have our view as to why), but I have a feeling we'll all agree on this.
In this thread, though, with diverse opinions and (sometimes strong) disagreement, I think we have been very civil, reflective of what I have seen in the country in the past and would hope for in the future. Differing opinions, disagreement to be sure, but respect for divergent opinions.
DVC does bring us together, but will never eliminate our philosophical differences. That we can be civil in discussing them here is a credit to the members of this board, the organizers and admins here and the culture started with the previous board.
Overall, I see this thread in a positive light for this board and would gladly share a drink with anyone here, including those with whom I disagree.
Cheers.
I am of the same opinion. As long as people are respectful and things don't devolve into personal attacks or otherwise become uncivil, I think that disagreements (whether political or otherwise) are ok, and even healthy in a lot of ways.
For instance, I don't care for the Enchanted Tiki Room, Country Bear Jamboree, the Jungle Cruise, Carousel of Progress, the Polynesian Resort, the Grand Floridian, nor Animal Kingdom Lodge. I'm sure many will disagree with me, but I'm confident they will be civil about it! 
Edit: I thought of some more things I don't like lol: - 50s prime time cafe - Rafiki's Planet Watch - Mission: Space - Space 220 Restaurant - Literally every "spinny" ride (teacups, aladdin, astro orbiter, dumbo, alien saucers, etc.) - Whispering Canyon Cafe |
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