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Post by tomandrobin on Aug 22, 2023 12:59:24 GMT -5
It seems the decision makers of years ago are no longer, that made Disney magical . I’m sure as long as they were doing well, they didn’t care what people thought, now decisions they have made are hitting their bottom line. You can’t price gauge people to death and expect them to take it. It comes a point when you just price yourself out. They have made a lot of bad decisions across the board. I still don’t get what they were or are thinking with the Cabins, this should be interesting to see the pricing and how well it sells, or doesn’t. Tourism overall is down in many areas, though. Being in a beach area the amount of vacancy signs I have seen this summer was amazing. Even on 4th of July week. You never saw that in years past. Restaurants haven’t been as busy. For various reasons, cruising is back so when that was shut down people traveled instead. Inflation, all that extra Covid money is no longer. For those who have the money to spend they may not have as much disposable income when they are paying more for everything. This year, we have seen a lot of people cruise and/or head to Europe. The costs are cheaper then going to Disney and its travel that has been suppressed over the past 3 years. Plus, Disney does not make it easy with all their freaking rules......Genie+, lightning Lanes, Virtual Queues, ADR windows, Park Hopping after 2pm (if available), Park Reservations.....the list goes on and on. Too much work for many people and they are tired of playing these games.
I admit that we are isolated from most of these things because of the Club. However, Robin is aware of it constantly because of her clients. We hear the feedback from clients, from friends who travel with us vs without us. Its frustrating and confusing for them.
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Post by tomandrobin on Aug 22, 2023 13:05:06 GMT -5
unless they become the next Aulani... The decline in booking works for DVC in deluxe resorts. I question if it will translate well to the cabins honestly. I mean I get the rest but I think they're being a bit short sighted. To me, the Fort Wilderness Cabins is a Jump the shark moment.
Aulani is a great resort. The problem is there are a ton of other great resorts there too. Unlike at WDW, there DVC has direct access to the Parks, Aulani does not offer anything more then the next great resort. Then add in that its a 6 hour flight from California and a 12 hour flight from the East Coast. Aulani is not a failure, it sells about as well as the Westins and Marriott timeshare do in Hawaii. Its just a success as the Theme Park DVC timeshares. Its all about location, location, location.
Also, if the point usage is right and the price is manageable, the resort will sell.
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Post by Adelard of Bath on Aug 22, 2023 13:10:18 GMT -5
Also, over the next 50 years, DVC will pay for all the maintenance, refurbishments and upgrades at the shared resort. Wouldn't it be more correct to say that DVC will pay for an appropriate portion of the things mentioned? I can't imagine that it won't be split with the hotel side. Cast members, landscaping, even profits from food service. |
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Post by tomandrobin on Aug 22, 2023 13:13:47 GMT -5
Also, over the next 50 years, DVC will pay for all the maintenance, refurbishments and upgrades at the shared resort. Wouldn't it be more correct to say that DVC will pay for an appropriate portion of the things mentioned? I can't imagine that it won't be split with the hotel side. Cast members, landscaping, even profits from food service. Clarify.....DVC will pay for all the maintenance of the Cabins, that Disney will be benefiting from on rentals. Yes, DVC and Disney will split the cost of shared services and amenities. But with a shared resort like this one, DVC will certainly pay more then its fair share. |
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Post by Adelard of Bath on Aug 22, 2023 13:16:04 GMT -5
Regarding cruise pricing: I see it mentioned every so often here and in other media, that more people are cruising due to the costs of going to Disney. I know everything is different for everyone based on a number of factors. We go to Disney once a year for a full two weeks, that's our trip. The way we like to vacation, it adds up to a certain amount and is isn't cheap. But wife wants to go on another cruise some day so she keeps looking...and every time we price one out, including adding up airfare, cars if needed, hotel before and after as needed, and whatever else, it always comes out to way more money than going to Disney.
Of course, she is always looking at Disney Cruises. So that is of course more money.
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Post by Adelard of Bath on Aug 22, 2023 13:20:45 GMT -5
Yes, DVC and Disney will split the cost of shared services and amenities. But with a shared resort like this one, DVC will certainly pay more then its fair share. I just want to make sure I'm not confused about stuff. I thought I had heard, in passing, that there weren't a huge number of the cabins? Could be wrong about that. But the rest of the resort has like what, 800 campsites? So maybe I'm missing something, but how are they going to convince DVC to pay more than the correct portion of costs? |
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Post by helenabear on Aug 22, 2023 13:23:22 GMT -5
unless they become the next Aulani... The decline in booking works for DVC in deluxe resorts. I question if it will translate well to the cabins honestly. I mean I get the rest but I think they're being a bit short sighted. To me, the Fort Wilderness Cabins is a Jump the shark moment.
Aulani is a great resort. The problem is there are a ton of other great resorts there too. Unlike at WDW, there DVC has direct access to the Parks, Aulani does not offer anything more then the next great resort. Then add in that its a 6 hour flight from California and a 12 hour flight from the East Coast. Aulani is not a failure, it sells about as well as the Westins and Marriott timeshare do in Hawaii. Its just a success as the Theme Park DVC timeshares. Its all about location, location, location.
Also, if the point usage is right and the price is manageable, the resort will sell.
I don't think Aulani is a bad resort. Just the wrong one for DVC in terms of time to sell out. It might be similar speeds as other time shares, but for Disney it wasn't a great move. Lots of crap went on too with it. It's bad for DVC people to travel to in many cases. I know I cannot tolerate CA flights let alone Hawaii right now, and cost for some I am sure was too much. My understanding was they thought they could appeal to a certain crowd and they didn't exactly for the reason you mentioned. Gorgeous resort though and I hope some day I can find a way to get out there. The jump the shark moment is exactly how I feel about the cabins. I fear it will suffer a similar slow to sell fate but would happily eat my words. All to be said the cabins would take a ton to get me to stay in them. I've done Ft Wilderness and I love it but not for Disney. We decided to do Riviera just to finish out WDW resorts and from here on out if we never stay in one I won't complain. I'm not sure who they will appeal to but time will tell I guess Yes, DVC and Disney will split the cost of shared services and amenities. But with a shared resort like this one, DVC will certainly pay more then its fair share. I just want to make sure I'm not confused about stuff. I thought I had heard, in passing, that there weren't a huge number of the cabins? Could be wrong about that. But the rest of the resort has like what, 800 campsites? So maybe I'm missing something, but how are they going to convince DVC to pay more than the correct portion of costs? They currently have over 300 cabins |
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Post by brp on Aug 22, 2023 13:26:48 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree on this. I guess it depends upon ones view on the issues. I see no impact at all to the "Disney brand" as a result of this. Just another legal battle that, really, most people don't care about. The movie issues you've alluded to elsewhere likely have done far more to the Disney reputation than this kerfuffle.
For many, though - including the LGBTQ+ community (including supporters like me), who are a large contingent of Disney fans, this has considerably raised their image.
While some numbers posted elsewhere seem to show a small drop in attendance (not borne out by the onsite experience), not sure it can be attributed to this. I do agree with your point about the lawyers being the ultimate winners. Cheers. It has nothing to do with political view(s).....I am only referring to actual polls,studies and consumer reports on brands. Disney as a brand has taken significant hits since all this started. These are not my opinions, just facts as presented. Disney's choices and at times, lack of choices are hurting them across all segments. To state that the legal fighting between the State of Florida and Disney (Iger) has no impact is your opinion and not based on facts. But this is where your political leanings show....Polls show there is a huge partisan split between Republicans and Democrats, with Independents more evenly split. So basically half the people support, half don't support. If only 50% are supporting, that means 50% are not. That is your brand taking a hit. The goal for all companies is to have 100% brand support, not 50%.
All good stuff, but I see nothing to support the notion that this issue is causing any of this. And, while I agree on the Democratic/Republican split on the issue itself, I see nothing to support that even folks who might be likely to favor the Governor's view actually know/care about this issue. There are a number of reasons why their popularity could be waning, apart from this issue.
Short of a poll asking specifically about this issue across a broad enough swatch, it seems that all we have are opinions specifically about the impact of this issue. And yours and mine don't agree.
if I missed something in your post the addresses specifically this issue and nothing else, apologies.
Cheers.
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Post by tomandrobin on Aug 22, 2023 13:31:33 GMT -5
Regarding cruise pricing: I see it mentioned every so often here and in other media, that more people are cruising due to the costs of going to Disney. I know everything is different for everyone based on a number of factors. We go to Disney once a year for a full two weeks, that's our trip. The way we like to vacation, it adds up to a certain amount and is isn't cheap. But wife wants to go on another cruise some day so she keeps looking...and every time we price one out, including adding up airfare, cars if needed, hotel before and after as needed, and whatever else, it always comes out to way more money than going to Disney. Of course, she is always looking at Disney Cruises. So that is of course more money. Looking at Disney cruise is still Disney.
We are going on a 7n cruise on NCL, staying Haven Level, cruise to Western Caribbean. We are alos going on a 3n cruise DCL, staying Concierge Level, cruise to Bahamas.
The NCL cruise is $7k vs 5k for DCL.
I could book a regular balcony for tat NCL cruise for $3k for two people or $3660 for a family of four. For a family of four with two kids under the age of 9, park tickets for 7 days would cost $3160 and that is without park hoppers. Add room for 7 nights and food, you are looking at $6-$7k total. The cruise includes all food and usually basic adult beverage package and a few specialty dining meals too.
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Post by Adelard of Bath on Aug 22, 2023 16:25:03 GMT -5
I could book a regular balcony for tat NCL cruise for $3k for two people or $3660 for a family of four. For a family of four with two kids under the age of 9, park tickets for 7 days would cost $3160 and that is without park hoppers. Add room for 7 nights and food, you are looking at $6-$7k total. The cruise includes all food and usually basic adult beverage package and a few specialty dining meals too. We get by cheap because no kids. Just wife and I so that obviously cuts down on food and tickets. Part of where we struggle when pricing cruises is it never works for us to do that thing where you fly and go direct to the port, and when going home you go direct from port to airport. So we always have to factor in two more nights of hotel. And we are on vacation so we want it to be nice hotel  Plus then we have gotten used to 14-day or slightly longer trips to WDW, and we milk out the annual passes for two separate years (e.g. Feb one year, Jan the next) so that can really help cut down on costs too. It's just different for everybody. |
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Post by BWV Dreamin on Aug 22, 2023 17:39:09 GMT -5
I could book a regular balcony for tat NCL cruise for $3k for two people or $3660 for a family of four. For a family of four with two kids under the age of 9, park tickets for 7 days would cost $3160 and that is without park hoppers. Add room for 7 nights and food, you are looking at $6-$7k total. The cruise includes all food and usually basic adult beverage package and a few specialty dining meals too. We get by cheap because no kids. Just wife and I so that obviously cuts down on food and tickets. Part of where we struggle when pricing cruises is it never works for us to do that thing where you fly and go direct to the port, and when going home you go direct from port to airport. So we always have to factor in two more nights of hotel. And we are on vacation so we want it to be nice hotel Plus then we have gotten used to 14-day or slightly longer trips to WDW, and we milk out the annual passes for two separate years (e.g. Feb one year, Jan the next) so that can really help cut down on costs too. It's just different for everybody. It depends on where you sail. The Caribbean is cheaper than Europe. Alaskan cruises are expensive, they are US based. Cruise prices are really inflating due to the demand. I fear the cruise industry will price people out just like Disney did. Plus, all of these new ships are coming out, some with theme parks on them. All to attract the family dollar. Traditional cruising as we knew it is fading fast. |
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Post by bakerworld on Aug 23, 2023 8:29:54 GMT -5
I could book a regular balcony for tat NCL cruise for $3k for two people or $3660 for a family of four. For a family of four with two kids under the age of 9, park tickets for 7 days would cost $3160 and that is without park hoppers. Add room for 7 nights and food, you are looking at $6-$7k total. The cruise includes all food and usually basic adult beverage package and a few specialty dining meals too. We get by cheap because no kids. Just wife and I so that obviously cuts down on food and tickets. Part of where we struggle when pricing cruises is it never works for us to do that thing where you fly and go direct to the port, and when going home you go direct from port to airport. So we always have to factor in two more nights of hotel. And we are on vacation so we want it to be nice hotel Plus then we have gotten used to 14-day or slightly longer trips to WDW, and we milk out the annual passes for two separate years (e.g. Feb one year, Jan the next) so that can really help cut down on costs too. It's just different for everybody. We use our DVC for the pre and post cruise night. We use to do 1 night before and 3 after but we have it down to 1 and 1 now. I always find a DVC room and it is how we've been able to experience PVB, GFV, RIV, BWV and our first Home stay at Kidani. AP takes care of the parks and food is never a big expense for us as we don't bother with ADR's for such a short amount of nights plus post cruise we're over food and drink - LOL. We have to fly to Florida any way and we trade out a traditional vacation stay at WDW for the cruise. So our only additional expense is the cruise, which is mitigated by not being in WDW. |
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Post by rigby on Aug 23, 2023 9:29:05 GMT -5
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Post by rigby on Aug 23, 2023 10:08:55 GMT -5
brp You check out the debate board lately? There’s someone over there who seems like he’s got it out for you. Doesn’t appreciate Cali folk having an opinion on Florida. You might want to check it out. 
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Post by tomandrobin on Aug 23, 2023 10:46:00 GMT -5
brp You check out the debate board lately? There’s someone over there who seems like he’s got it out for you. Doesn’t appreciate Cali folk having an opinion on Florida. You might want to check it out. I hope that "person" realizes that Disney is Headquartered in California, therefore "Cali" folks have had an opinion in Florida (WDW) since Walt started buying land in Orlando.
Iger is from New York, lives in Los Angeles.
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